You can use past or current NBA players. Here is my list.


1. Wilt Chamberlin (Shattered and benchmarked so many records)

2. Michael Jordan (Accomplished more with less compared to Magic and Bird)

3. Magic Johnson (The ultimate floor general)

4. Larry Bird (A sharp shooter and one of the most clutch players)

5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Unstoppable sky hook)

6. Hakeem Olajuwon (Steamrolled over many dominant centers towards his 2 titles)

7. Shaquille O'Neal (Took 3 different teams to the NBA Finals)

8. Oscar Robertson (Mr. Triple Double)

9. Julius Erving (The NBA never got to see his true talent)

10. Tim Duncan (Arguably, the greatest NBA power forward of All-Time)
Bill Russell is not on my list because I see him as a modern day Dikembe Mutombo / Alonzo Mourning on a currently loaded Boston Team (with the Boston 3 Party). The reason why he won so many rings has to do with the fact that he was in the right place at the right time.
Hoopfan, it's been a long time since we've had our epic battle arguments. You laugh at my list without Bill Russell while I’m pretty sure many fans would question why you have Jordan at the bottom tier of your top 10 list. What is your basis for calling Bird the greatest NBA player of All-Time? Championships? He has less than Magic and Jordan. NBA category leaders? Bird never led the league in any category like Wilt, Magic, or Jordan. Triple Doubles? Even though, Bird has averaged closed to a triple double for most of his career but sorry, The Big O owns this category. If you’re talking about how important a player was to his team then certainly Magic, Hakeem, and Tim Duncan are equally deserving. We both have our biases when it comes to who should be in the upper echelon of All-Time NBA greats. You have your beliefs against Jordan and I have my beliefs against Russell.
Bill Russell has certainly certified himself as an NBA legend with his championships resume but in my book, you need to be a force on both ends of the floor and I don’t believe that Mr. Russell has that complete game to separate himself from the Wilt’s, Kareem’s, and Hakeem’s of the world. He doesn’t have the dominant offensive game to compliment his game changing defense to pole vault himself into my top 10 list. Let’s not forget that Russell played in an era where the 3 second rule did not exist, which may have allowed him all the time in the paint to get more blocks and rebounds. The same could probably be said for Wilt but unlike Russell, the Stilt was a more well rounded player who has the athleticism and basketball IQ to lead the NBA in scoring, assist, and rebounding if he wanted to. I believed that Russell was more of a defense-oriented player similar to Mutombo and Mourning but happened to be on a team loaded with stars.
I think it’s very unfair to compare MJ’s first few season Chicago Bulls to Bird’s first few season Boston Celtics. Bird joined a team loaded with veteran experience HoFamer players (Pistol Pet, Tiny Archibald, Dave Cowens) to learn from while Jordan joined a team that was in search of an identity. The only true HoFamers MJ has played with in his early Chicago days was George Gervin. While, you may say that experience is not that important, I believe that for some players it is. It’s true that Jordan came into the league as an unfinished product and definitely not as great of an around player like Bird was. It took MJ some time to understand the game and improve. He worked on his game every season and came back with something new. A better jump shot, improved team play, better defense, etc. Similar to the Hakeem Olajuwon / Patrick Ewing rivarly where Ewing’s college team often defeated Hakeem’s team for success in the NCAA tournaments.
However, once they both made it to the NBA, Olajuwon became the ultimate roadblock who denied Patrick his only championship opportunity. This was due to the fact that Hakeem worked on his game every year in the NBA and elevated it to the point where he surpassed Ewing in the All-Time greats ranking. I’ll give you that Bird may have been more important to the Celtics than Jordan was to the Bulls due to his stronger all-around ability but my criteria is not based solely on that. I based my opinion on a wide variety of factors. A player’s impact on the game, record books ranking, championships, and individual awards (MVP, DPoY, Category Leaders Title) to NBA achievement awards (All-NBA Team, NBA All-Defensive Team). If you look at MJ’s resume, he took home the highest award recognition and achievements that can be bestowed upon an NBA player (10 Time All-NBA First Team Selection, 9 Time NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection, 5 Time Regular Season MVP, 6 Time NBA Finals MVP).
Jordan obtained all this because of his own ability and dedication to become the best, not because of Scottie Pippen or any Chicago Bulls conspiracy theory that MJ haters like to pro-create. Think about it? Most of these awards were given to big men and I firmly believe that throughout NBA history, more big men had a bigger impact on the game than guards. You are entitled to your opinions that these awards may have been a part of some conspiracy plot to market MJ as the next big superstar but that is still your own individual opinion that lacks any solid grounds for evidence to warrant any kind of belief. The fact that Jordan accomplished all this and won 6 championships without a game changing center is just astounding. I’m not taking anything away from Bird because I truly respect him for what he has done for Boston and I thank you for pointing this out for me. I’ve always enjoyed learning something new everyday.
But please, don’t let your bias / support for Bird, allow you to discredit MJ for what he has accomplished during the 1990’s. Jordan is the reason why guaranteed HoFamers players (Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Dominique) during the 1990’s were denied championships and if he never retired, he may have had 8 straight titles. Let’s just look at a player’s achievement for what it is ok? We can sit here and debate all day about how you believe that Jordan needed Pippen the way Kobe needed Shaq but the last time I checked, Bird never won a title without Parish and McHale, and Magic never won a championship without Kareem and Worthy. Great players always need a great complimentary wingman. You can stick to your beliefs that the 1990’s were watered down but the funny thing is, that decade produced the greatest depth of solid to dominant true 7 foot centers (Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Mourning, Mutombo, Brad Daugherty, Rik Smits, Rony Seikaly, Kevin Duckworth) the NBA has ever seen.
You also can’t deny the fact that the Eastern Conference had some of the toughest defensive teams during that era ranging from Chuck Daly’s original Bad Boy Pistons to Pat Riley’s bruiser New York Knicks to Larry Brown’s deep defensive Indiana Pacers squad. MJ had to go through these teams year in / year out in order to get to the NBA Finals and then, he had to face the best the West had to offer. You can critique MJ’s pre-championship track record all you want but once he made it to the NBA Finals, the Bulls have never lost, in fact they have never lost more than 2 games in the Finals.
There have been a lot of teams with great season records year in / year out, made the playoffs every year, and even got to the finals, but what does that prove? In the end, it’s not about where you have been but where you finished. Talent and depth alone won’t win you championships or else the 1990’s Phoenix, Portland, Indiana, and Cleveland teams would have won a title by now. The 2004 Lakers with Payton, Kobe, Malone, and Shaq would have won it. The Houston Rockets with Drexler, Olajuwon, and Barkley or Pippen would have won it. Without special players like Magic, Jordan, or Bird leading the way, those teams will only be considered good but never great.
It's great to know that we can agree to disagree Hoopfan.


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I think you've forgotten someone from your list. Do you know who is Kobe Bryant? Best player in the planet right now...

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1- Wilt Chamberlain (Greatest Center Ever Too Many Records Including 100 Points Man 100)

2-Michael Jordan (Nearly Full Player Many Titles)

3-Kobe Bryant(Jordan With Less Titles)

4-Larry Bird (Shoots From Anywhere U Like And It Is IN)

5-Magic Johnson (The Best PG EVER)

6-Kareem Abdul Jabbar (Solid Center/Leader In Overall scoring)

7-Shaquille O'Neal (Great Center/Broke The Rim/Led 3 Teams To The NBA Finals)

8-Tim Duncan (Best PF Ever)

9-Julius Erving (He Wasn'T Jumping He Was Flying)

10-Pete Maravich (Great Dribbler/GREAT Pass/Beautiful Shooting Could Be No.4 But His Injury......

Bill Russell I Agree With U Totally
Dominique Wilkins (5 or 6 Times Slam Dunk Contest Participiant But Erving Could Jump MUCH Higher)

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1. Michael Jordan
2. Earvin "Magic" Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Bill Russell
6. Larry Bird
7. Tim Duncan
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Julius "Dr. J" Erving

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larry bird
hakeem olajuwon
dr j
magic johnson
steve nash
bill russel
charles barkley
abdul jabbar
kevin mchale
pete maravich

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1. Micheal Jordan(His impact on the sport is unmatched, the greatest).
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar(All-time leading scorer, best big man ever).
3. Magic Johnson( The best all-around point guard ever, could do it all)
4. Tim Duncan(Best Power Forward ever, Best bigman of his era).
5. Oscar Robertson(a walkin triple-double)
6. Wilt Chamberlin(An unstoppable force before the shot clock).
7. Larry Bird(One of the greatest shooters ever and clutch always)
8. Shaquille O'Neal(A winner everywhere, one the best bigmen ever).
9. Bill Russell(leader and defensive god for 11 championship teams)
10. Kobe Bryant(3-time champion and one of the greatest all around players to step on an NBA court).

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Your list is cool. Michael Jordan was a better player than Wilt though.

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1. Michael Jordan
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
7. Larry Bird
8. Jerry West
9. Tim Duncan
10. Shaquille O'neal

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The fact you don't have Bill Russell makes your list weak. Bill Russell WAS THE REASON the C's won 11. When Russell left, Haverilcek was to lead the C's to the title, and they ended up not even making the playoffs!!

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Nice list.

In your list, you seem to translate players to how well they would play in today's game- which is probably why you omitted Russell from your list (because if judging Russell from what he did in the 60's- where he won 11 championships, 5 MVPS during the careers of other all-time greats in Wilt, Oscar, and West, and was the best defender/initiator of the fastbreak in league history then he'd have to be on the list).

But, I agree that in the modern game, Russell's impact would be noticeably less- it's harder to start fastbreaks and the game is geared differently- he'd probably be, as you mentioned, a Dikembe Mutumbo type player- much better of course, but in the same mold.

So, basing my list on how players would perform in today's game, here's my list:

1) Michael Jordan- it's between him and Wilt here in my IMO. I'm going to give it to Jordan because unlike Wilt he tended to play better in the bigger games, never lost a playoff series when he had homecourt advantage as Wilt did, and was more clutch- very close, and I tend to switch between them regularly.

2) Wilt Chamberlain- best center in league history, unbelievably good passer, and great interior player with a nice fadeaway from the baseline. He was probably the greatest athlete in the history of the NBA- because at his size, his speed, and his ability to face up and attack the hoop from there as well as post up, was nothing short of amazing.

3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar- was one of the few big men in league history who could be counted on in the clutch- he had range with his skyhook to about 15-20 feet away from the basket. Had an illustrious career, was a staggeringly dominant scorer, and was the best finesse big man in the history of the game. He was probably the only player ever to use the hook shot and make it completely unstoppable.

4) Magic Johnson- best passer ever, biggest mismatch in league history because of his size and handles, and one of the only players that actually made his teammates better. If there was one player that I had wished had never retired- it would be Magic because I could watch him play all day.

5) Larry Bird- had an uncanny sense of where to be on defense and where his teammates were on offense. In his prime, when he won MVP 3 times in a row (a feat unmatched in history aside from Russell) in an era where his position, small forward, was the most stacked in history (Bernard King, Erving, Aguirre, Dantley, Dominique, Worthy, Jamaal Wilkes, Mike Mitchell) he was the best of them all. And was one of the most, if not the most, clutch player of all time.

6) Shaquille O'Neal- Dominant player, unstoppable offensively, underrated defensively, and ranged from a great to elite rebounder during his career. Aside from Barkley, he's the most efficient big time scorer of all time. In his prime, it's hard to justify taking a whole lot of guys over him- and he had a great career as well.

7) Hakeem Olajuwon- Took one of the worst championship supporting casts in the 94 Rockets to the promise land, and did it while demolishing Ewing in the Finals (Ewing shot something like 36%), and flat out embarrassing him. If that wasn't enough, the next year in 95, he once again dominated his opposition- this time his victim was David Robinson- who he also made look silly. It was those two years that set Hakeem apart from Robinson and Ewing, and his place as one of the best ever. And, I can't forget about the legendary Dream Shake of course.

8) Jerry West- People seem to think that he was just a great shooter (and he was) but there's far more to him than that. He is, IMO, the second best shooting guard of all time, played elite defense, was a great passer (even played point guard at time because of his elite passing ability), and actually relied more on slashing to the hoop earlier in his career (and he broke his nose seven times from driving to the hoop in the NBA). He'd only be better in the modern game because his point totals would go up- he took and made a lot of threes back when he played- but since there wasn't any three point line, he didn't get the three points that modern players get.

9) Oscar Robertson- right below West, IMO. Wasn't as good a defender, teammate, or as clutch as West. His statistics are inflated to a degree because of how much he had the ball in his hands- I hesitate to label him selfish- but compared to Jerry West or say Erving later, he wasn't nearly as good a teammate, and struggled to share the ball even when he had other very good players on his team (like Jerry Lucas). Still, can't deny the man's talent- excellent mid-range game and very good passer.

10) Tim Duncan- I move him anywhere from the 10 to 8 spot depending on my mood. He's a center in a power forward body (in fact last year he played 92% of his time at the PF position). Great at anchoring the defense, good low post player, good passer, and him (along with Garnett) showed that a big man can be a very good scorer, but

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1. jordan
2. russell
3. bird
4. chamberlain
5. magic
6. robertson
7. kareem
8. west
9. dr. j
10. shaq

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Your list has absolutely no credibility without Bill Russell somewhere on it. Not to mention, comparing the great Bill Russell to Mutumbo or Mourning is absolutely laughable. Bill Russell was:

1. Probably the greatest defender ever
2. Second greatest rebounder ever
3. 11 titles in 13 season , including 2 titles as player/coach
4. Led an unknown college to 2 NCAA titles
5. The Celtics don't even make the playoffs after Russell retires.
6. 5 time MVP

What is the criteria for your list? You're kind of all over the place.

You say Jordan accomplished more than Bird, with less?

1993 Bulls, with Jordan - 57-25
1994 Bulls, without Jordan - 55-27

1988 Celtics , with Bird - 57-25
1989 Celtics , without Bird - 42-40

Keep in mind that the 89 Celtics still had McHale, Parish, DJ, Ainge, and Bird was replaced with all-star Reggie Lewis.

Without Jordan, the Bulls are still a 50+ win team. Without Bird, the Celtics are a .500 team, despite having all those great players. So how did Jordan accomplish more with less?

Plus, keep in mind that Bird led the Celtics to 61 wins in his rookie year, up from 29 wins the year before with the same core group of players. It took Jordan 7 years to win 60+ games.

I'm not trying to start an arguement, I just can't see how you put Jordan above Bird based on that. Anyways, my list would go like this:

1. Bird
2. Wilt
3. Robertson
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Kareem

7-10 - in no particular order
Shaq
West
Jordan
Duncan

_________________

The 3 second violation was enacted in 1944, well before Russell entered the league.


You and I just have different criteria for rating players. I'm not bashing Jordan by putting him at #7-10. I just feel that other players were better all around than Jordan was.

I respect your opinion, though ...

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JOHN STOCKTON should be there somewhere...

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